Comments on: Robert Spencer’s Jihad http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/ Random musings of a law student from the Midwest about to enter the "real world". Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:39:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: Abu Sinan http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-85 Abu Sinan Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:39:47 +0000 http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-85 There are some people who will not listen to any amount of facts. Spencer believes that it is the religion of Islam itself that is the issue. As such, nothing will change for him until Islam is no more, or it is watered down to the point where Islam looks nothing like what is in it's holy text, much like most modern Christianity and Judaism. As to if he is on a jihad, of course he is. I once read he is a dedicated Christian, and as such, he feels HIS way is right and Islam is wrong. So in the end his "facts" are only serving that goal. There are some people who will not listen to any amount of facts.

Spencer believes that it is the religion of Islam itself that is the issue. As such, nothing will change for him until Islam is no more, or it is watered down to the point where Islam looks nothing like what is in it’s holy text, much like most modern Christianity and Judaism.

As to if he is on a jihad, of course he is. I once read he is a dedicated Christian, and as such, he feels HIS way is right and Islam is wrong. So in the end his “facts” are only serving that goal.

]]> By: Foreign Devil http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-88 Foreign Devil Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:13:03 +0000 http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-88 If "Spencer’s op-ed might as well have been authored by Ayman al-Zawahiri" and Spencer is a "bigot" and an "Islamophobe", then isn't Ayman al-Zawahiri also a bigot and an Islamaphobe? It's mystifying to me why people can't see that Robert Spencer is simply quoting the jihadists, who in turn are quoting Islamic scriptures and the long-dead scholars. In doing so, Spencer is pointing out that there has been no organized effort within the ulema to refute them on Islamic grounds. While nothing will convince the jihadists, without a countervoice their arguments are finding resonance within the umma. If “Spencer’s op-ed might as well have been authored by Ayman al-Zawahiri” and Spencer is a “bigot” and an “Islamophobe”, then isn’t Ayman al-Zawahiri also a bigot and an Islamaphobe?

It’s mystifying to me why people can’t see that Robert Spencer is simply quoting the jihadists, who in turn are quoting Islamic scriptures and the long-dead scholars. In doing so, Spencer is pointing out that there has been no organized effort within the ulema to refute them on Islamic grounds. While nothing will convince the jihadists, without a countervoice their arguments are finding resonance within the umma.

]]> By: Peter Buch http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-100 Peter Buch Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:17:29 +0000 http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-100 Spencer is for freedom, justice and other things once linked to the west. Any man could stand for this unless the purpose is to stand for priority of a discriminating practise or idea. Spencer is for freedom, justice and other things once linked to the west. Any man could stand for this unless the purpose is to stand for priority of a discriminating practise or idea.

]]> By: Sid http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-324 Sid Tue, 03 Apr 2007 15:51:45 +0000 http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-324 Many people have been quoting the Quran out of context in an effort to show that Islam promotes violence. Robert Spenceris a high profile example. This is pure nonsense. Spencers and others doing this are taking selected passages and reading them completely out of context to support whatever argument they wish to make. I can do the same thing with the Bible. Here are some choice passages from the KJV Bible which when read in isolation makes the Bible appear to be a primer for evil: 1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens. 2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants. 3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war. 4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins. 5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently. 6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law. 7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him. Context is important, of course, and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read as such. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for unspeakable horrors, as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095 or as many American preachers did when they used Leviticus to defend slavery. Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history. Robert Spencer, a man who claims to be Christian, would do well to learn something of his own faith's scriptures and history before accusing Islam's Quran of promoting violence. Many people have been quoting the Quran out of context in an effort to show that Islam promotes violence. Robert Spenceris a high profile example.
This is pure nonsense. Spencers and others doing this are taking selected passages and reading them completely out of context to support whatever argument they wish to make. I can do the same thing with the Bible.
Here are some choice passages from the KJV Bible which when read in isolation makes the Bible appear to be a primer for evil:
1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it’s OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.
2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.
3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.
4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.
5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.
6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.
7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.
Context is important, of course, and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read as such. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for unspeakable horrors, as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095 or as many American preachers did when they used Leviticus to defend slavery.
Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history. Robert Spencer, a man who claims to be Christian, would do well to learn something of his own faith’s scriptures and history before accusing Islam’s Quran of promoting violence.

]]> By: Nabeel http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-446 Nabeel Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:42:58 +0000 http://www.eloquentincoherence.com/2007/03/04/robert-spencers-jihad/#comment-446 Spencer wants to have a good read of his own Christeo-Jewish Bible and his own peoples history of crusades, inquisitions and colonisations before he goes pointing fingers at other communities. It is people like him who breed more hatred in this world and turn moderate Muslims into terrorists. In addition to the Biblical quotes Sid quoted, there's many other violent and totally barbarian quotes I've read from the Bible, every religion has the potential to be misintrepreted, we all just have to work for peace and try to get on with each other. I must say criticism of any religion as "violent" coming from a Christian is pretty rich, he wants to have a read of his own scripture and history, when the Christian Crusaders conquered Jerusalem the streets were flowing with blood knee deep from the Muslims, Jews and Orthodox-Christians the Christians killed but when Saladin conquered the Christians he forgave them with gracious forgiveness for as The Lord says in the Glorious Koran says it is better to forgive. Spencer wants to have a good read of the Old Testament seen as he being a Christian believes it is from God i.e. Jesus (as Jesus according to them Jesus is 1/3 of God). There's also the New Testament... Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Luke 22:36 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Spencer wants to have a good read of his own Christeo-Jewish Bible and his own peoples history of crusades, inquisitions and colonisations before he goes pointing fingers at other communities. It is people like him who breed more hatred in this world and turn moderate Muslims into terrorists.

In addition to the Biblical quotes Sid quoted, there’s many other violent and totally barbarian quotes I’ve read from the Bible, every religion has the potential to be misintrepreted, we all just have to work for peace and try to get on with each other.

I must say criticism of any religion as “violent” coming from a Christian is pretty rich, he wants to have a read of his own scripture and history, when the Christian Crusaders conquered Jerusalem the streets were flowing with blood knee deep from the Muslims, Jews and Orthodox-Christians the Christians killed but when Saladin conquered the Christians he forgave them with gracious forgiveness for as The Lord says in the Glorious Koran says it is better to forgive.

Spencer wants to have a good read of the Old Testament seen as he being a Christian believes it is from God i.e. Jesus (as Jesus according to them Jesus is 1/3 of God).

There’s also the New Testament…

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luke 22:36
He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

]]>